Constructive dismissal real life case study

This video is a first of it’s kind: A real life case study about a constructive dismissal negotiation. Within this footage of a real life situation with a real client… we are going to show you how to negotiate your own settlement agreement negotiation.

You will also learn about the specific case of Relocation and Without Prejudice correspondence (Out of court off the record letters that go between employer and employee, trying to settle one of these cases).

Full transcript:

right so we're going to do a real-life
case study about the constructive
dismissal negotiation and no one's done
a video like this before because what
we're doing I'm not going to be telling
you about how to do your own
constructive dismissal negotiation in
some kind of dry follow this procedure
type way this is an actual real-life
example where we've got a real-life
client calling in and I'm going to be
advising that fine and I'm going to take
you through the story and teach you how
to do your own settlement agreement
negotiation so if you're leaving your
job and your twine in negotiating an
exit package you need to watch this
video to understand how to do that in
real life aside from learning Germany
how to negotiate constructive dismissal
system in agreement you're also going to
learn about the specific case of
relocation where the company wants to
move you from one office to another like
but Manchester to Birmingham for example
and you're also going to learn about
without prejudice correspondence which
is the kind of letters that go between
employer and employee which are out of
court off the record letters trying to
settle one of these cases out of court
in this next section my client calls me
and he wants some advice because he's
got to have a phone call with his
employer and they're going to offer him
a settlement agreement deal and he wants
to know from me how to conduct himself
what to say

okay yeah yeah okay okay sure well I
would obviously take notes given that
you've got you've got a pen and paper
there and then definitely put your
listening hat on and do more listening
rather than talking just got I remember
at the end of the day these guys are HR
professionals right so they do this
every day of their lives so they'll be
they will know exactly what to say and
you won't probably ever done this before
am i right so so given that you've got
literally no experience at all I
wouldn't bother trying to learn today I
just say look I'm just going to do this
to listen to what you say I'm just gonna
you know go away and think about it and
when they say look if you've got any
ideas of what you want in terms of they
might ask you to put the first offer
forward I would come back to them and
say look I'd appreciate if you could if
you could let me know it will indicate
what what you'd be prepared to offer me
so I would almost like a game of poker
in a way try and try not to show your
cards right so try and stay stay out of
the out of the game in the numbers game
listen to what they say when they say
that offer try not to sound pleased if
it sounds
I just you know knowledge it okay I'll
go away to think about that or I'll come
back to you and then you can always call
me back after and we can go through
exactly what we think is going to be a
good deal for you and there's no harm in
in jotting down a few notes about
exactly what you what's happened to your
role you know what what you told me
about how the company's in a mess
but give actual facts and examples so
that they actually know how long have
you been employed there okay perfect so
you've got more than two years so you've
got rights so let let them know that
that you know these points that have
occurred so regarding for example than
no objectives the goalposts you know a
few things about the company structure
and they probably know that you know
that anyway but ultimately it wouldn't
hurt you just to set those out given
that this is an off-the-record
conversation that side of things you
can't really damage your your chances
here so the only thing that could sort
of damage your chances is by if you're
going in too low with the numbers or
reacting if they give you quite a good
offer reacting like you sound happy
because it there in the day just keep a
poker face and tell them that you just
need to think about and play it cool
basically and even if it's a great offer
don't even bite their arm of the chances
are they'll come in with something quite
mobile okay for them whatever the maps
they've done they'll say right we're
offering part of you know on maximum or
three quarters or it won't it won't be
the maximum even if they say it will you
know there's always a way to leverage
that up so so just play it cool mate and
just be in charge of the scenario you
know don't and then you know draw you in
or not
too much into the initial conversation
with her job with the actual person or
there's been discussion Wednesday and
finishing a couple of things off yeah
potentially under with certain people is
there any advice you can give me on that
so yeah yes it does yeah because you
know it's something you can offer them
on top of whether it is just a question
of them some people they just want them
to sort of leave quietly but if they
want you to do a hand over as well or
finish off some projects as well you
know you might want to kind of point out
that this or that project won't be
possible to complete without you or you
know the person that you're speaking to
an HR they might not know the details of
the project so I don't know if it's
probably the difference at different
person that asked you about those change
yeah so you could mention the name of
that person say this person asked me
about Hanover asked without finishing
your project don't assume that the HR
person knows so it's definitely that's a
card that you should definitely play for
sure okay all right if you have to call
me back I will have my phone on and at
that time so you can always count and
give me a shout back I know it's a phone
call anyway bit if you get something
urgent and literally pop out and call me
if you get really stuck alright normally
normally it's ten days okay and that's
according to a class recommendation
that's not legally binding so you see
what they could do is they could say
well we need to know by we need to know
right now or tomorrow or whatever but
the chances are that they're almost
never actually reduce that offer if you
don't take it in that deadline they
won't they won't withdraw it really but
if they do try they might try and put
pressure on you in that way it's just to
try and get you to accept a lower offer
yeah so you can just play that call and
you can
that deadline slide if they give you one
and you can almost sort of be sure that
that won't that that won't be off the
table at all it'd just be a tactic if
I'm if that happens all right then
nice one mate good luck yeah just okay
okay so you've just seen the video of
the initial advice that I've given my
client obviously now he goes away and he
has that phone call with his employer
and he comes back by the way we can do
all this for you or your lawyer can
normally do this for you but sometimes
the client the employee wants to have
that conversation themselves if they've
got a good rapport with their employer
so that can really work as well and then
we or your lawyer can advise you kind of
behind the scenes in this next phone
call he's going to come back now he's
going to tell me how it went with his
employer and what they offered Yeah
how much is that

okay okay and did you just say you were
going to go when I think about it he
said yeah because I previously been told
by the guy that's my report into the
first Medicare was tax-free yeah but the
Hedgehog I said otherwise
and so obviously the tax on the three
months not very well on the three months
pay which is about 20k yeah Parviz
before it's temp eyes on that
significant yeah straight away numbers
right so I just said I needed to think
about it it wasn't really something I
wanted to do anyway yeah yeah the
world's changed significant mix in the
role I volunteered to do and then I felt
like I saw I've given up a very good job
where I could be located where I wanted
and now I'm forced into a corner where
we believe right right yeah yeah yeah
and that was agreed with the previous
procurement that would be yeah but the
new guy wants the person different
control to be there four days a week
well I tell you what I mean you know
sometimes when they change your job role
it's a little bit of a gray area because
if it's just the duties that are
changing or some of the other conditions
you know I arguably though within the
rights to do that but where they're
sending you to a different part of the
country for you know a significant
amount of time which is an extra two
days a week so it's almost half you week
then I think that's much a stronger
argument for basically saying that
that's effectively constructive
dismissal you know you're basically
Manchester so in which case you know
you'd you could put together some
arguments that you'd be entitled to more
than that so what we'll do is we'll
write we'll write you an email to send
to them in response yeah just setting
out a couple of arguments around around
that and scenario and then we'll see
what they come back with maybe we can
try and get you know another couple of
months on top sound good all right let's
see each other on the emails yeah all
right all right nice one mate Jess take
care right so he's done well so far he's
got an offer on the table three months
payment in lieu of notice because he had
three months notice period in his
contract which means he doesn't have to
work for three months they'll still pay
him now that's worth to him twelve
thousand pounds after tax
he's also been offered one month's pay
excreta which is tax-free and that's
worth six thousand pounds to him so so
far so good he's got eighteen thousand
pounds on the table but how do we ramp
up that offer well in relocation cases
first thing you've got to do is look at
your contracts of employment so you've
got to see whether they're allowed to
move you from say Manchester to Bernie
and for example in my clients contracts
of employment it did have a relocation
clause which was drafted quite widely
which meant that in fact they could move
him because what it said was that we can
ask you to move and work sorry in any
office location in the UK so just to
just to be clear it's not moving house
but just to commute so there asked him
to commute from Manchester to Birmingham
they're allowed to do this according to
the contract so what do we do next
so we had to think outside the box a
little bit and here
we managed to look at the timeline of
events that my client had prepared for
me and he had a conversation with a
manager when he transferred into this
new role and this manager told him that
this new
would be based in Manchester so he's got
it on a verbal now what we're what we're
going to say what we arguing in this
case is that that verbal assurance that
supersedes the contract the written
contract because it came after the
written contract so the written contract
was varied by a verbal agreement with
this manager now
he provided consideration for this
agreement in other words he'd acted upon
it by taking this new role so he didn't
just have this kind of chat in a
theoretical sense this was one you know
which was what encouraged him to take
the new roles so he can now rely on that
and say that he has got this verbal
contract so they can't try and relocate
him and under the contract so that would
be constructive dismissal forcing him to
do that at this point obviously it's
quite a technical argument we're now
running so what we've done is we've
written a letter to the employer rather
than trying to have our client reel off
his arguments on the phone sometimes
when you've got a technical argument a
letter is much better because it allows
you to frame your argument and to really
set it out quite clearly so the other
side even if HR can't understand it and
they need to go back to their lawyers
they will understand it sooner or later
especially if it's a good argument you
know why not put it in writing more
impacts as well so you can find the link
to the case studies page on a website in
the description below so in our left so
we set up this verbal contract argument
and we asked for more money now what
happened next but took us off guard a
little bit because in their reply to him
which was a verbal reply thing they said
in fact we're not negotiating with you
so we're closing without prejudice
negotiations and we want you to come to
a meeting tomorrow morning where you
discuss all these matters that you've
brought to our attention about the
relocation discussion with the manager
okay and the commute and how you know
our clients got a family and he can't
kind of get back in time to look after
his his baby and so on so so this this
took us off got not only now with our
client have to attend the meeting
tomorrow morning which he really didn't
want to do and but also they'd be able
to end because they'd be able to drag
him through this process this kind of
grievance process but also what if
put everything right and made it you
know more in accordance with the
contract they could basically repair the
damage they've done and then there would
be no negotiation angle anymore so what
would you do now well first of all let's
try and get him out of the meeting was
my initial reaction I spoke to him he
didn't want to go to this meeting
luckily he had another meeting booked in
at that time in the morning anyway now
it's not a soccer ball offense to not
attend the meeting but at the same time
you know you could be disciplined for it
so you don't want to just not turn up
luckily he wanted to leave anyway so we
had that additional bit of leeway here
you know he wants to leave so we can
play a bit of hardball but what we
really did that was really a cunning way
to reply to their argument was this we
told them that by trying to undermine
the doctrine over without prejudice so
by taking off the record out of court
letter and making that a kind of an
official grievance meeting at work what
they were doing really was breaching the
trust and confidence between them and
between our between our client and that
duty of trust and confidence is what
Chris shots our dismissal is all about
so they're effectively we're saying this
is bad behaviour you can't do this and by
doing this this is actually making the
constructive dismissal worse because
you're undermining our clients legal
rights to use this without prejudice
doctrine to protect himself to have this
conversation with you off the record not
only that we were also saying that if
they're dragging or without prejudice
points into the open then that would
entitle us to drag there without
prejudice points into the open - and
then we would be able to talk about the
offer they made us to leave ok which was
the three months point on than one month
six grace'
the 18,000 we'd be able to talk about
that in the grievance meeting - and
therefore eventually in court or
tribunal and if it ever got to that to
that stage so they didn't want that to
happen either so we're kind of using
their own trick against him in that way
when they received our letter the other
side basically crumbled and gave our
client everything that we asked for so
this was a kind of a home run a great
result for him you know and really for
us I mean it's all in a day's work I
mean you
you know it's really not it wasn't that
much of a of a difficult case of quick
easy when a couple of days turnaround
time you know and very kind of although
quite exciting it's quite low stress
really for the client.